Berkeley Homes plans to demolish listed Woolwich building
Royal Arsenal developer Berkeley Homes is proposing the demolition of a Grade 2 listed building on the site dating from 1739, which faces the square where the Dial Arch pub resides. In its place they are proposing a new square and car drop off point beside the forthcoming Crossrail station.
There is a consultation about this coming up at the end of this week to ask just what the justification is. The dates are:
FRIDAY 28 NOVEMBER 2014: 3PM-7PM
SATURDAY 29 NOVEMBER 2014: 10AM-4PM
VENUE: GREENWICH HERITAGE CENTRE, ARTILLERY SQUARE, ROYAL ARSENAL, WOOLWICH SE18 4DX
The building, known poetically as ‘Building 11’ (see plans on left) and sometimes as the ‘Officers’ House’, is currently surrounded by sheeting. Berkeley propose demolishing it to open up the space, which they have named ‘Royal Arsenal Square’. The opened space would create another square to the north east just off Dial Arch square.
The image above is taken from English Heritage’s ‘at risk’ page here. The site dates it as from 1717 but this appears to be a mistake as it contradicts English Heritage’s comprehensive history of the Arsenal site which can be seen here. Details of this specific building are from page 25 on. The latest condition of the building is listed as ‘C – Slow decay; no solution agreed’. It states:
‘The Royal Arsenal site is owned by Berkeley Homes who are progressing repairs. A masterplan for the whole site has been approved by the Local Authority. The building is protected by sheeted scaffold and a temporary roof, but there is much timber decay to the interior.’
Clearly it doesn’t look too great in the above shot. But imagine it cleaned up, with ground floor space offering shops/galleries/pubs/restaurants etc bringing greater life to the squares, with residential above. Far better than a turning circle for cars.
As an aside, just how bland is the side of the station box? An early render showing the side of the station with the threatened building is below:
The space that exists with the Building 11 would still be big enough for a small drop off-point for select users (if absolutely essential) while retaining the building, which could offer amenities on the ground floor/first floor levels facing this square with careful alterations.
Possible reason for demolition
I’ve not had the time this weekend to look into the issues as deeply as I’d hoped so this post will just put down some initial thoughts, plus I thought it best to stick up a post to alert people as soon as possible before the consultation begins.
Firstly, if the reason is for a large drop off area, just how wise is that here as it will soon become chocked with cars and taxis from miles around. This will badly affect the ambience of the existing square plus any new space created. People enjoy the Dial Arch and green space because it seems like an oasis from busy Woolwich. A car park next to it is not ideal.
Structural damage?
There have been rumours that structural support may have been affected by Crossrail work. Firstly, is there insurance to cover any damage? Also, Crossrail may be liable and have to contribute if they have damaged the building in any way. Given the lengths Crossrail have gone to in order to protect buildings it will be interesting to see what they have to say, if this is given as a reason to demolish. The site above states known issues. The council and English Heritage will want to look into how long these have been known and exactly what work has been undertaken there. Secondly, what can be done now.
Forgive my cynicism, but I’ve heard similar arguments before that have later proved to be false. Also in Woolwich there is the suburb art deco former co-op building. Before 2008, the owners were planning to demolish it to be replaced with a car park. The reason given? You guessed it – it was structurally unsound and must come down. Funny how after the 2008 crash occurred and halted the plans, the building was then seen as salvageable and is now being converted into flats which will be completed soon.
Looking at plans it seems as though the Crossrail station footprint does not intrude onto the threatened building site, so that’s not a valid excuse. If Berkeley offer pedestrian movement as a reason then that would be ridiculous. People could still move from Dial Arch square to the new square via a short detour around the north of the building. You don’t demolish listed buildings to knock off a few metres walk. But anyway, this render below seems to show a gap between the threatened building and station thus through paths existing to north and south.
New square – new car park?
The rest of the proposed square, aside from the car drop-off point, looks to be a large vacant space. If Greenwich council have any role in maintaining it then we’ll no doubt see many cars driving off the road and parking on the expensive new paving whilst ‘waiting’.
The photo above was taken JUST after millions of new paving was laid at Woolwich’s Beresford Square. You can see the work wasn’t even finished before it became a car park. This happened a fair few days I passed and I never saw any enforcement. If there was any it wasn’t widespread enough to deter people. There were often far more cars than pictured, as well as heavier vehicles placing weight on the new paving, which was far from cheap to install. Not very smart.
Though I never saw it, similar story’s emerged of parking on the expensive new paving at the public space by the Cutty Sark in Greenwich. If Greenwich couldn’t be arsed to enforce rules at a world heritage site then little chance elsewhere.
I don’t get why Greenwich allow parking everywhere and anywhere, seemingly at complete odds to its overzealous neighbour Bexley Council. Parking on grassed areas, playing areas and on pavements blocking the disabled and prams all seem fair game. If anything is ever done it is simply sticking up rubbish quality bollards and railings and cluttering up places instead of just fining.
A market?
One possible use for the new square and the vacant space could be a market, but just how enticing is such a prospect next to cars and inevitable queues of cars? Plus, there’s already the outdoor market and threatened indoor market two minutes walk away. But without one what else would the large expanse be legitimately used for?
The consultation is this Friday and Saturday. I’m very busy at the moment but I will look into this a bit more, time permitting, and hopefully add some more information. I’m finding it very hard to see justification so far.
Even if the building is falling apart with no hope of rescuing there’s many questions to be asked, and if the worst case scenario is true and independently verified, much of the facade could be retained with the interior fundamentally rebuilt to provide retail, bars etc with flats above, bringing life to both squares.
Once again here’s the details:
FRIDAY 28 NOVEMBER 2014: 3PM-7PM
SATURDAY 29 NOVEMBER 2014: 10AM-4PM
VENUE: GREENWICH HERITAGE CENTRE, ARTILLERY SQUARE, ROYAL ARSENAL, WOOLWICH SE18 4DX
If Building 11 is demolished, could this leave enough room for yet another tower block?
The recent case of the refusal of the Secretary of State to grant permission for redevelopment of the (unlisted) General Market building at Smithfield sets a very important and, in this case, potentially useful decision especially with regard to the poor condition of the building. Details here: http://www.victoriansociety.org.uk/news/pickles-throws-out-smithfield-plans/
I’ve heard back from English Heritage on the matter. They are going to strongly oppose the demolition. In their words : ”
The very high significance of the Royal Arsenal as a whole is underpinned by the ensemble of surviving historic buildings, and the informal development of the spaces around them, such as Dial Square. In our view Building 11 provides a very positive contribution to this ensemble and its removal would be damaging to the sense of place so successfully maintained to date.
The public consultation for this application begins on 2nd December, I would encourage you or any other local residents to engage in this process and register your comments through the council’s online planning portal once the application has been posted.”
Let’s spread the word and help offer this historic building a new lease of life!
Good work. I expect they will be getting a lot of questions tomorrow.
There seems no good reason to demolish building 11. I would imagine it could be restored as valuable office space. Potentially it would improve the proposed square by defining the otherwise leaking space.
The Royal Arsenal Woolwich Historical Society (RAWHS) strongly opposes the proposed demolition of Building 11. It is not only the last set of military quarters for officers and men of the Royal Artillery from the days when the Royal Regiment was stationed in the Royal Arsenal, but it has also had a multitude of important occupants since those days, including senior personnel in charge of factories within the site. It would be a significant loss to the story of the site and the proposal seems to the RAWHS to have no merit whatsoever.
I don’t feel particularly strongly about this, but there should be some reference to Berkeley’s arguments, broadly;
60k people a day will use the station and that there isn’t room for circulation with building 11 in situ. In addition, the ground slopes and its continued presence would imply awkward steps and level changes.
Building 11 doesn’t have much merit. It’s falling down, has been subjected to numerous alterations and only had merit as part of a right-angled composition with another long-gone building.
(more elegantly at http://www.royalarsenalsquare.co.uk/downloads/display-boards.pdf)
If Berkeley were trying to erect a building on this site, we’d be accusing them of sweating the asset and obstructing use of the Crossrail station.
(PS I think concerns about the square turning into a car park are probably misplaced. This may be public space, but it’s not Public Space. I’d imagine the Plumstead Road access will be gated.
Love this blog, btw.
Cheers. I’m on a rubbish laptop right now but I did a short follow up post to this where I think I touched on these issues.
60k will use daily but the vast majority will not head in the direction this building is ‘blocking’ – which is exiting, turning right then right again and walking eastwards. Most will head south to the town centre, a decent % north, an increasing amount west as the many new builds planned in that direct complete (many thousands of units at various sites), and the relatively small % heading east will in all likelihood turn left as they exit, then left again and walk east along Plumstead Road. This stretch is having brand new, wide paving installed. It’ll be direct to Plumstead with bright, spacious, high quality public realm and will have shops for part of its length.
As for level changes there shouldn’t be anything awkward about that with good planning and suitable steps and ramps. This is a prime site and commercial and residential space would be snapped up to help fund improved accessibility both through and around the building.
Building 11 isn’t the finest, but cleaned and with well designed contemporary additions would be a fine addition to both squares. Someone earlier commented and mentioned Granary Square at Kings Cross for such changes which is a good example. The listing makes alterations difficult but given it’s condition would be granted. Better than demolition.
I don’t think it loses merit as it’s no longer at an exact right angle to other buildings. It keeps the sanctity and form of Dial Arch square in its current location and does a similar job by being at a right angle to the Dial Arch pub, and also will do the same role for the new square, with the station and block housing cornerstone cafe at a right angle. Plus, it will act as a shield from Dial Arch Square to any taxi/cars waiting.
Opening up the space by demolishing can look attractive in the renders but will lose the feel of the existing square, opening it up to waiting cars and fumes, and the new space is lessened by its removal.
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There is a new consultation on this square, with plans to keep building 11, tge details are here http://www.royalarsenalheritage.co.uk
Hi further to this article , listed building being partly demolished building 10 , proposals for 11 story block of flats with shops underneath , adjacent close , very close proximity to a six story block East carriage house, stopping all sunlight , natural light and completly over shadowed . Making our balconies in usable, not forgetting of course the dirt and dust we have lived with for the past six years . We will not have any privacy completly overlooked, at the moment we have to have our lights on all day, I dread to think what it will be like if this gets the go ahead
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